Groups > Discuss, Debate and Deliberate

Is the idea of the test that by getting them to read non-words they can’t have just memorised it so they actually have to do the sounding out of the word?

If so then I think it sounds like a good idea in principle to help identify those who are struggling. However, I don’t like the league table stuff and don’t think it should be used to compare students to others.

Surely the teachers would know which kids are strugling and which aint though? a test shouldn be needed epsecially where the teacher has to take time out form the whole class to be with each child individualy! surely they do that with reading?

I will be administering this test. We did a ‘dry run’ a couple of months back when the sample papers were issued. It did only take 5 minutes per child, if they struggle with the first part you don’t go onto the second part. Our able readers were getting 100% and our less able obviously weren’t. It didn’t tell us anything we didn’t already know and we are already targetting the children who need the extra support.

I must add though we have a group of maybe 10 children out of the 60 who are all sop hung up on the phonics method of reading that they just decode and don’t understand anything they read – these children have been targetted for a ‘tricky words group’ with another teacher focussing on ‘key word’ learning by sight. Phonics is not the be all and end all!

I think the test is a big waste of time. I don’t think it will stress the children but it will be a couple of days out of the teaching timetable to release a teacher (familiar to the children) to administer it and we’ve had extra (imo unecessary) training in the ‘importance’ of phonics.

This smacks of a government jumping on some research and then jumping on the bandwagon the way the old Labour Government did bringing in the Literacy and Numeracy strategies and the first phonic programme – all these methods go in and out of fashion and we could all do without the government breathing down our necks and those of our INFANT children.

Katie

Given that 1 in 5 children aged 11 fall short of expected reading standards, it would seem that the kids who are struggling aren’t necessarilly being picked up on though.

Lot’s of children are struggling with reading but because they memorise what familiar/common words look like they can “wing it” as such when reading with their parents/teachers and give the impression that they can read just fine.

I think the idea of this test is that the non-words mean they have to rely solely on their phonics skills rather than their memory and so it identifies the children who can’t decode unfamiliar words.

Given that 1 in 5 children aged 11 fall short of expected reading standards, it would seem that the kids who are struggling aren’t necessarilly being picked up on though.

These children ARE picked up and recieve targeted help from age 5,6,7 … or are part of reading recovery programmes. When a child isn’t exposed to books at home, lives with non-readers and doesn’t see themselves as a reader no amount of phonics testing will turn them into one. Often these kids can decode using a phonic method but still can’t read.

Lot’s of children are struggling with reading but because they memorise what familiar/common words look like they can “wing it” as such when reading with their parents/teachers and give the impression that they can read just fine

Believe me you can’t ‘wing it’, there are enough elements to reading that this isn’t possible and as books get more challenging a child that only uses a ‘key word’ strategy will start to falter.

I think the idea of this test is that the non-words mean they have to rely solely on their phonics skills rather than their memory and so it identifies the children who can’t decode unfamiliar words.

Yes it does, but it doesn’t identify children who can’t learn key words quickly (often those with mild learning difficulties) or those who can’t use contextual cues (sometimes children with an Autistic Spectrum disorder or English as a second language) or those with poor comprehension. As I said above there’s more to reading than just phonics.

But again Tasha the teacher should already know who these children are, a test shouldn be required at all.

I know that my oldest can read fine she is almost 8 and no longer has set reading books she is a free reader as they call it, my younger child will be 5 in july and is one of the baies in the class and she can read simple words and has reading books, she can use the phonic soundings i dont how this test would benefit her other than the teacher telling me again what she already has, its more paperwork, more wasted time for what?

@PrincessTT – I don’t believe the children not reaching expected standards by age 11 (by which I assume you mean a NC Level 4) are a huge sudden surprise to their teachers though. My Y3 son is not at reading at that level yet (unsurprisingly given he is only 7) but his reading books are already sufficiently complex that a child who’d just “memorised a few common words” would not be able to read them. TBH reading at NC Level 4 is more about comprehension than decoding the words anyway.

Schools already do their own assessments. DS’s junior school tests the child’s reading age (I don’t think that is a great test either, but it’s some sort of a guide) and does regular reading/comprehension assessments to track children’s progress. I do think it would be very poor teaching that allowed a child to drop through the net. The issue really is that it’s very hard to identify a child that has genuine problems such as dyslexia that need to be specifically addressed, and a child that perhaps is slower to “get” reading. There are so many forms that dyslexia can take it’s very hard for a teacher (unless they happen to previously have experienced a child with the same form of dyslexia) to necessarily spot it.

But I don’t believe that teachers ARE picking up on all children who are having difficulty reading. As I said in a previous post, I know several people whose children have difficulties either weren’t picked up by the school, or weren’t taken seriously, until very late. At least one of these families has paid for private assessment because the school wasn’t doing its job.

Ezzie, just because it won’t benefit your child that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t go ahead… If it catches just one struggling child, who would have gone under the radar otherwise then its worth the 1 day disruption to all the other children in the class IMO.

And as Mistigri (I think) said, if schools are picking up on struggling children then why are there so many parents moaning that their kids’ reading difficulties weren’t picked upon earlier?

@mistgirl not all schools are like that!

“There are so many forms that dyslexia can take it’s very hard for a teacher (unless they happen to previously have experienced a child with the same form of dyslexia) to necessarily spot it.”

One thing that dyslexic children very commonly have problems with is decoding non-words …

I don’t think anyone believes that phonics on its own is enough to turn all children into good readers. But being able to decode unfamiliar words is a necessary (but not sufficient) condition of becoming a good reader. It’s all very well working on reading comprehension, but if a child can’t decode then it is putting the cart in front of the horse.

you will not get a diagnosis of dyslexia in an infant school in england. we’ve had so many we’ve felt were probably dyslexic but apart from early screening which means you can put in place some extra support the ed psychology service will NOT diagnose dyslexia til age 8 due to so many other factors in a child’s learning and development.

and at no stage in the recent training has there been any mention of dyslexia or the test being appropriate for picking it up.

“not all schools are like that”

I’m sure they’re not, but I’m talking about several people of my acquaintance, with children in schools in different areas. And I’m not suggesting that these are “bad” schools (I’m not in a position to say).

The point is that at the moment, the judgement as to whether a child is struggling is a *subjective* decision made by a class teacher, who probably doesn’t spend a lot of time hearing individual children read. It’s very easy, in those circumstances, to put difficulties down to “immaturity”, or “parents not reading enough at home”, when the problem may lie elsewhere. A standardised test at least brings some objectivity (as long as teachers don’t begin teaching to the test).

@Tasha i cant even be arsed with your responses any longer you seriously need to grow up.

The test is useless fact, its giving teachers more work and more paperwork to have the same outcome they already know.
And if teachers need this test to show them which child is struggling with phonics they need a different job!